OMG not long now

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ShaneC
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OMG not long now

Postby ShaneC » Thu May 29, 2008 12:22 am

Just a couple of weeks to go before the next lan, getting excited now. Should be another good one, hopefully the weather will be kind and we can get to the nudist beach :P

I've got some exciting news and I am really hoping it comes off but I won't know until a few days before the lan party. Can't tell you the exact details but put it this way, this may be the first lan party in the world to run the open beta of a new version of a game. Err that sounds a bit cryptic but if you look at my signature and know me and what game I love it will give you a clue. I am chatting to one of the developers most days so will let you know if it comes through.

Got a nice lead up to the lan party as well, 3 days training at this n00b place called nexus, Mike ever heard of them :P

The S.H.I.T.S will be lower in number at this event, I think we can muster about 8 people but we very much look forward to seeing you there.

Cheers, Shane

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Re: OMG not long now

Postby mikethegreek » Thu May 29, 2008 1:19 pm

yup not long to the lan now.
ppl sign the fuck up already.

What training you doing, we have 2 sets of ppl in that week.
I never get involved with the training stuff so you will prob not see me around.
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Re: OMG not long now

Postby ShaneC » Thu May 29, 2008 6:35 pm

Training is MS 2011 - Troubleshooting Microsoft Exchange Server 2003. If I do see you around I'll give you a wave Image

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Re: OMG not long now

Postby iMess » Thu May 29, 2008 10:53 pm

Well done Shane.
If online bullying has taught us anything. It's that people would sooner hang themselves than lose a bit of weight.

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Re: OMG not long now

Postby Neomancer » Thu May 29, 2008 11:16 pm

ShaneC wrote:Training is MS 2011 - Troubleshooting Microsoft Exchange Server 2003. If I do see you around I'll give you a wave Image


http://www.google.co.uk


well, it works for me, after installing all the service packs, rebooting.. and crying in a corner for a little while :)

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Re: OMG not long now

Postby ShaneC » Sat May 31, 2008 6:22 pm

lol, google is great but if your company is going to pay to train you it looks good on your cv, will help towards the MCSA anyways.

So I spoke to one of the developers today, and he said it looks likely we will have access to the software I mentioned above. There is some in house bitching going on between 2 of the 3d modelers but that should be sorted soon lol.

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Re: OMG not long now

Postby xconspirisist » Sat May 31, 2008 10:34 pm

The impression I get is that qualifications look good, but the more useful employees are those that can google effectively :)

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Re: OMG not long now

Postby Neomancer » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:09 am

xconspirisist wrote:The impression I get is that qualifications look good, but the more useful employees are those that can google effectively :)



it comes down to knowing how to FIND how to fix it, rather than reading stuff in a book, i could read a book right now, and probably forget most of it by the time i need to actually use it.. but on the flipside, i'd know where to find out in the future.

like mike at the moment, he knows his stuff, but im sure the 2 reasons he is getting qualified are to fill in the random bits he does't know, AND because of the large clients hes dealing with, it looks a LOT better that all their engineers are professional qualified.

i went to a interview ages back at a company, and they said one of the reasons they would look to train people is the fact that when they tender for building jobs, EVERYONE in the company is qualified in one way or the other, and makes them look very professional.

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Re: OMG not long now

Postby tomuk5 » Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:49 am

mmm its more what you know than how many bits of paper you have, i know more than enough to cover a CCNA qualification (infact quite a bit past as im learning BGP and OSPF which isnt covered until CCNP) but im struggling with the CCNA coursebooks and exams because its different to the way i normally work and i dont like exams much :P

although quite interesting after speaking with some guys from NextiraOne theyve been telling us about thier cisco tech candidates, that they had hundreds of candidates all with CCNA or CCNP qualifications, and to sort the good ones out they setup mock test scenarios and gave them an issue and asked them to design a solution and implement it..... well some couldnt even find the console ports or even turn the cisco switches and routers on, because they had never used anything but a simulator and some (even those with CCNA or in the process of doing the CCNA) had designed and implemented a solution perfectly and in some cases really impressed the guys doing the interviews.

in the end they gave it to one of the guys who was just starting his CCNA but he had been working with cisco kit for years and had plenty of experience but just no qualifications to back it up.

and therin lies the issue, qualifications dont necessisarily mean you are any good at anything, it means you know the subject matter but may lack the ability to implement it because all you learned was the course and nothing outside of it.
BUT at the same time qualifcations are a way of moving up in the world and getting better jobs/money and (should) show your skill in that subject area.

my advice when taking a course or exam for a qualification is dont just study the scope of the course but take your time aswell to study in the area just outside the course and to have a play with the kit in real life and practice on things, because the more you learn about the way its implemented IRL then the more insight you have into the subject and ability to react when things dont go as planned.
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Re: OMG not long now

Postby ShaneC » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:20 am

...anyway, not long to go now

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Re: OMG not long now

Postby Wishy » Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:47 pm

tomuk5 wrote:although quite interesting after speaking with some guys from NextiraOne theyve been telling us about thier cisco tech candidates, that they had hundreds of candidates all with CCNA or CCNP qualifications, and to sort the good ones out they setup mock test scenarios and gave them an issue and asked them to design a solution and implement it..... well some couldnt even find the console ports or even turn the cisco switches and routers on, because they had never used anything but a simulator and some (even those with CCNA or in the process of doing the CCNA) had designed and implemented a solution perfectly and in some cases really impressed the guys doing the interviews.

in the end they gave it to one of the guys who was just starting his CCNA but he had been working with cisco kit for years and had plenty of experience but just no qualifications to back it up.


Tom, I know you've worked in smaller companys which obviously means you have a number of people with general skills who will rack the kit, run the cables and set it up, but that isn't always the way things work in larger (National / Multinational) companys. For example I work on F5 network load balancers and bluecoat proxy servers, which we mainly use for SSL. I've never seen the datacentre they're housed in nor even seen one of the devices.
Local teams rack the things up for us, run the cables to the appropriate parts and sort the VLans, we then install, maintain the troubleshoot the devices. If one goes pop they remove it for us and rack the replacement. We then restore the configs.

Now, If you asked me to do an install, i might well struggle to find where everything is (I've worked with tin before, so i doubt it, but still). Does that mean I don't know what I'm doing with the kit (Well, I've only been working with the kit a month, so maybe, but thats besides the point :wink: ), and which set of skills would be harder to learn, running cables and finding power buttons or learning to use the kit at a logical level.

It might not seem the most sensible way of running things, but it makes more sense having a small team who know what they're doing with the kit and then having others doing the local work than a number of full trained in all areas teams at each datacentre. Not least because if you deal with 100's of different devices your never going to be an expect on a small number of them. And of course this is how big outsource firms hope to save money.
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Re: OMG not long now

Postby tomuk5 » Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:25 pm

what im getting to is that its not all about hardware knowledge its the creativity and knowledge of the subject that cant be taught in a qualification, using my own example, the same people who couldnt find the console ports also were the ones who struggled with the config of the devices aswell, because they hadnt even practiced with the kit or been creative with it, they had just followed the course/qualification to the letter and not pursued it further.
thier knowledge of routing protocol's and packet inspection was spot on and they could rattle off the various VLSM's by heart and work things out in thier heads but they lacked any "skill" or creativity to do the work.

of course it doesnt just mean you have to assemble the kit by hand to know how it works, but people have to be able to think outside of thier qualifications.
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Re: OMG not long now

Postby xconspirisist » Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:45 pm

You all make reasonable points. Especially mark, knowing how to find a way to solving a problem is far more useful than blindly learning how to solve it. Wishy, having a BSc you must of noticed people on your course who excel academically, yet are hopeless when it comes to the real deal.

I don't wish to sound arrogant, but I'll probably get a 2:2 (respectable degree) or even a third (useless), but I know I've tried my very hardest. I have met my limits which is fantastic (although very stressful). I know also, that I can run circles around most of my course mates technically, which I personally find more important.

These have just been my personal opinions and experiences, I'm not really trying to make a point in this post.

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Re: OMG not long now

Postby Wishy » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:06 am

xconspirisist wrote:You all make reasonable points. Especially mark, knowing how to find a way to solving a problem is far more useful than blindly learning how to solve it. Wishy, having a BSc you must of noticed people on your course who excel academically, yet are hopeless when it comes to the real deal.


Of course this is the case. Some of them would struggle to find their own arse with both hands.

My point was merely that never having handled the kit doesn't mean they're incompitent, and having the knowledge a CCNA requires is a good kickstart. If you found they had a CCNA but couldn't do things in practice, I'd be running through scenarios in an interview instead. How would you fix something your experienced in fixing?
If the basic fault finding method is sound then i would expect they'll pick it up in a few months... Of course if you have candidates who are after the same cash that can already do the job, its a no brainer. Just saying not everything is so clear cut. (Which, of course, to most techys is a problem - I, like most of you, started going into work seeing things as being right or wrong, capable of doing a job or not - shades of grey are important)
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Re: OMG not long now

Postby The Sam » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:05 pm

xconspirisist wrote:I don't wish to sound arrogant, but I'll probably get a 2:2 (respectable degree) or even a third (useless), but I know I've tried my very hardest. I have met my limits which is fantastic (although very stressful).
A wise man once said to me: "Only the best is good enough". If you did your best, then it's good enough :)

There is way too much focus on qualifications these days with the added inaccurate inference from that which cause people to think that just because one has a degree, that they are good and experienced in the given field. nuh-uh. If I were thrown into a postgrad job right now and be expected to perform like I've been working there for years, the first thing I'd say would be something like "lol wtf do i do now?".

I'm not saying qualifications mean nothing, but they aren't *everything*.

xconspirisist wrote:I know also, that I can run circles around most of my course mates technically, which I personally find more important.
I don't doubt the truth behind that a single iota, but I still chuckled a bit. Glad to see your confident in your abilities :)

Oh and being able to find help (referring to the googling point made) is as important as knowing stuff.
Because we can't know everything.


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