Windows 8

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ShaneC
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Windows 8

Postby ShaneC » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:08 pm

As it's officially released tomorrow, is anyone else going to upgrade? When I tried it out a while ago I wasn't really impressed but I hear it has faster startup, a better network stack and hyper-v in the pro edition. So might be worth a look, if you can hide Metro :D

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Re: Windows 8

Postby xconspirisist » Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:11 pm

Yup, playing around with Windows 8 is on my todo list, but only so that I learn it inside and out for my CV. I won't use it personally, Windows at home is generally just used as a games loader.

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Re: Windows 8

Postby Freelance » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:08 pm

I've been messing around with the old RP/server 2012, and while I'm sure it's got lots of "essential" under the hood improvements, I just can't justify switching over. I can't get too enthusiastic over 'significant' performance increases any more - oh wow, I can boot up in 5 seconds (right after I upgrade my whole system and go with an SSD) - compared to the current state of affairs with win7 I consider it marginal enough to be negligible, or I just don't care about waiting that few extra seconds a few times a day. That's before a few months/years of actually using windows by which time it'll have bloated out with all the stuff you install.

That's before you get to the interface. It's not made for mouse and keyboards, which is how I personally, right now, use my PC. Unless MS are going to include new touch hardware in the box, without shelling out $5 to stardock for start8 (or whoever) to tweak it back to full desktop mode, it's not good. I can see it working on a touchscreen laptop or tablet, but desktop with my screen a good 6" beyond my reach the new features work against me and several WIMP/HCI laws. Even then 'gorilla arm' will probably be an issue where you're making big gestures to accomplish what I can now do with just fingers. If only they had included a switch instead of 'my way or the highway', but without metro all that's left is a slight update on win7.
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Re: Windows 8

Postby Wishy » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:37 pm

I've got a MSDN OS license, and I've used the RTM.

Short version: You couldn't pay me to take it
Long version:
If they provided windows 8 with the windows 7 GUI, I'd be very interested, it has some nice tweaks.
Unfortunately, they didn't. They also didn't listen to EVERY FUCKING REVIEWER who said metro was an unholy mess for desktop users, giving you two disjointed desktops. Yes, there are hacks to turn this off, but frankly microsoft should be providing that. I'm not going to put a third party hack on which gets knocked out later by a patch or service pack.
I gave a competent user access and instructed them to start the calculator. 15 minutes later, they hadn't managed it. I personally took approximately 10 minutes, having already read some information about where the menus were.
Microsoft want the tablet market, but they've forgotten their core users:
1) Pay their wages
2) Have desktops and laptops without touchscreens, hence have to cope with the unholy mess.
3) Don't want to learn how to use an OS again. Especially when we're talking business machines and training costs can be huge.

This is a bigger fuckup than Gnome 3, and I hope it flops. MS needs to be reminded who buys their product, and that they have a choice.
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Re: Windows 8

Postby ShaneC » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:47 pm

Cheers guys, kind of what I expected, Metro really ruins what could be a better than win 7 OS. MS have come too late to the party and in trying to catch up they have messed up their core product :/

Rumours are, the next OS will be Windows X and that name will stick across all platforms...lets hope they redesign the god awful interface :D

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Re: Windows 8

Postby Freelance » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:06 pm

I think the core of the UI problem for me is that it's not one or the other, or a nice combination of the two, but some weird mix. It's shuffling you between two different interfaces, neither of which is 'complete' by itself.

Think about that for a bit, that's not just 'use one tool for this thing, and another tool for that', but two very different ways of interacting with your computer in one operating system, and you don't get to say which one is used where. They didn't provide a switch

With what MS provide, you can't stay in one interface type and accomplish everything, even on RT, the ARM tablet OS they boot you to the desktop for office and file management. On Pro (or 'full' windows) you can't stay in desktop because they amputated the old start menu, while the metro control panel doesn't give you the full range of things that you can control and it moves you to windowed/desktop control panel for everything else.

I don't think I'd mind so much if they said they were making an alternate and separate version, or that metro would be blended in to suit a desktop mode of interacting. I remember back when metro/W8 was announced there were a load of concepts made to show ways desktop/metro could co-exist, with live tiles working in the way that vista/w7 desktop gadgets work, and metro apps existing in windows, but MS have stuck to this with no compromise, and that's what annoys me the most.

W8 has only accelerated my research into alternate paths to manage how I run my computer in the future, with stuff like virtualisation/VT-d/IOMMU/xen.

I was reading this ars article about the history that led up to metro, and something that stood out to me is that the longhorn failure in 2004 (page 3) was the death of MS doing anything to really overhaul the desktop and underlying frameworks it's built on, and unfortunately metro is built as another layer on top of those foundations although more abstracted and portable. What vista and win7 ended up being was polishing up the desktop and keeping it updated, but not really moving forwards, and win8 is an effort to follow/catch the latest trends.
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Re: Windows 8

Postby mikethegreek » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:05 pm

I am the same as Steve. Win8 has some nice things i would like but the interface formally known as metro is a pain in the ass.

I was looking at it today in the office along with office 2013 and metro just dosent work on the desktop in it current format.
I have used the MS surface and other Win8 tablets, it works very well with a touch device.
as soon as you stick if on a desktop without touch it gets in the way making things more complicated to do.
Office 2013 would not shut up about logging in to the MS cloud even though there was no intention to sync with it.

When Metro first came around they said the enterprise and business versions would have a more normal start menu but they have just forgot about this.
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Re: Windows 8

Postby Neomancer » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:35 pm

hopefully i will be in the office when the double decker microsoft windows 8 and office party buses are parked in our carpark :p

from what i've heard.. the tablets/keyboard covers work best with windows 8 as they are touchscreen

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Re: Windows 8

Postby iMess » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:23 pm

Pro: If you have a WinPhone / Tablet = Awesome
Con: Everyone else = Fail.
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Re: Windows 8

Postby Merson » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:37 am

ShaneC wrote:As it's officially released tomorrow, is anyone else going to upgrade?

Would rather chop my left testicle off than use that POS of a start screen. :)

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Re: Windows 8

Postby Gooseman » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:21 am

Merson wrote:
ShaneC wrote:As it's officially released tomorrow, is anyone else going to upgrade?

Would rather chop my left testicle off than use that POS of a start screen. :)



+1

id rather stay with my win 7, havent kept upto speed tbh, but if the rumors are true that steam wont work, then fuck upgrading, and tbh i play games that have enough compatability issues with win xp let alone 7, why would i want to go further..

btw .... i heard that RA wont work with win 8

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Re: Windows 8

Postby Merson » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:43 am

Gooseman wrote:+1

I would like to retroactively change my statement in light of this recent event. Windows 8 is the most perfect OS in the world today. Nothing compares to its sheer brilliance. Also the start screen is technological advancement beyond anything released so far.
the above post is being sarcastic, please don't read it literally.

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Re: Windows 8

Postby Freelance » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:36 am

Gooseman wrote:id rather stay with my win 7, havent kept upto speed tbh, but if the rumors are true that steam wont work, then fuck upgrading, and tbh i play games that have enough compatability issues with win xp let alone 7, why would i want to go further..

btw .... i heard that RA wont work with win 8

I'm pretty sure on Win8Pro all the old stuff works, the desktop stuff is all still there it's just hidden behind the start screen. Ignoring metro it seems like a pretty minor upgrade, which frankly is another reason I CBA with it if I'm going to immediately hack out/disable metro.
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Re: Windows 8

Postby mikethegreek » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:36 am

the amount of value you 2 place on you testicles is kind of worrying.

Goose Steam will work. it just had problems with the pre release.
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Re: Windows 8

Postby ShaneC » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:45 am

We are saved, for just $4.99 we can pay to make Windows 8 feel a bit more Windows 7 like http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/features.asp

Orrrrr, just not upgrade :D

I'll be looking around at the lan party for frustrated users smashing the hell out the keyboard trying to find where the apps have gone :lol:


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